Comments on: When Numbers Matter

By: REYouthPastor

REYouthPastor — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:48:20 +0000

This is BS bro's.Success in YM = HUGE YOUTH GROUP. Period. Look at Joel Osteen bros.

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 03:15:11 +0000

kkkessler, thanks for your thoughts. I know it can be tough to see a decline in numbers in a positive light. We had a similar experience with the youth pastor previous to me, before I got here, where the attendance went from about 40 to about 10. It ended up being a time of pruning because a lot of those kids were causing more trouble than it was worth. They needed a different kind of ministry. I inherited those 10.

Also, to your comment on #6, I do think they are mutually exclusive in that the primary goal of one is in conflict with the primary goal of the other. It does not mean you can't have elements of both, but I don't think that you can be an attraction-based youth group AND a relationship-based youth group at the same time. Attraction-based ministries are all about the show and the program, not the people who show up (they just count heads). I know I am generalizing here, and I'm not saying everyone who cares about running a professional event is evil, haha, I just hope that the primary focus is the relationships. Will the leaders of this youth group stop their big show for the sake of a few students who need their attention?

By: kkkessler

kkkessler — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 21:29:02 +0000

My leaders are struggling with this more than me right now. When they hired me five years ago, we went from a roller coaster ride up from 8 to 45…and now we are back to 8 again. They are questioning many things…including my job! And rightfully so. It isn't the questioning that bothers me, but how we arrive at our answers. And I think you hit on that–there is a right way (healthy way) and a wrong way (unhealthy).

I especially liked your comment on REJOICE OVER ALL YOUTH IN ALL YOUTH MINISTRIES! We have a pretty good youth network here–the best in my 22 years of youth ministry.

I would suggest that number 6 be a both and…but definitely want relationships OVER attractive…but relational IS attractive…

By: Nick

Nick — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:18:57 +0000

This would be a great conversation point: what should the values be?

Also, I understand your point about numbers being used differently. I'm only playing with the concept here for those who use the phrase “it's not about numbers” to justify being lazy in evangelism, discipleship, and kingdom growth.

By: Nick

Nick — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:17:26 +0000

That's a great observation, Christian: God does the growing, not us! It's too bad that not enough people realize that.

I hope the best for you youth group and your leadership.

By: AdamLehman

AdamLehman — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 15:15:15 +0000

Nick,

I 100% agree.
I just find it detrimental to everyone when number even become a part of our conversations. All they do - when talked about - it puff up our ego or make us feel like trash.

In reality, I think we've just got to set some values or goals and they've got to be super-rooted in God's calling and design. If we're going to measure something, we've got to be SO SO careful because of the world we live in. Back when Scripture was being written, they had a very different culture than we do, so numbers would have been handled differently.

By: Christian McNeilly

Christian McNeilly — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 14:31:25 +0000

Thanks for this post. I've recently come on as director of student ministry at my church to a youth group of about 20 kids ('on the roster') ranging from 6th through 12th grade. Average attendance fluctuates between 50% to 75% of that number, so yeah, this post strikes pretty close to where I am right now. My church is very supportive of the current state of things, but it's difficult not to feel some looming pressure from some unspoken judgement, even if it doesn't actually exist. Your reminder is refreshing.

I'm just recently beginning to connect in network with some other youth ministers in my area. We're finding that numbers are most significant when they mean something. The number of kids engaged in discipleship is a lot more substantial than the number of kids in attendance.

This has prompted me to take a hard conscious look at what assessment tools I use to actually measure the health and growth of our youth group. A growing number of students is only one piece of the puzzle, and a rather conditional means of measuring at that. Instead I've found that measuring kids by their depth, desire to know Christ more, desire to worship, desire to serve, desire to share the Gospel, desire to engage in discipleship, are all ways to more accurately measure whether or not our ministry is growing.

Looking at all those verses you posted on numbers, I can't help but notice that in almost every case it's God who does the work of increasing the number. A sober reminder that we stay committed to the task before us and spend the rest of our time on our knees that God would please himself in continuing to add numbers.